It's one thing when a friend tells you to get a life, but another altogether when your own therapist says it. And mine really said it!
"Get a life, right away! This week!" Were her exact words.
I have a life, actually. Too much life, sometimes. I'm getting divorced, I'm selling my house, I'm selling my business and when that's done, I'll have to go find a job. Soon, I'll be living alone for the first time in my life. I'm in grad school. Why, oh why do they make you apply a year in advance? Last year, I had a slow, boring, life. Now my life is hurtling downhill like like a runaway shopping cart.
So I know my therapist was joking in the way she said it, but very serious in what she was saying: I needed to quit moping around the house and get some real, three dimensional friends (since divorce scares off all your existing friends) . I need to exercise, hike, join a book club, anything to meet people. Then she said, "You should try internet dating!"
I was a little taken aback. After all, is it fair to myself or others to date when I'm so confused and emotional from ending my 20-year marriage? I asked her that very question and she talked about a book called The Four Man Plan. Although it was written for women, the principle works for guys, too. The author recommends that those fresh out of a long term relationship (or LTR in the internet dating world) should do anything to avoid getting right back into a committed relationship right away and should instead date at least four people at once.
Besides helping to avoid the urge to commit, dating four people (or more!) at once allows you to meet and deal with different personality types and various qualities and problems that people have. From that you learn what characteristics you like, hate or can live with. Even though you are meeting and studying all these people, it is an exercise in learning about yourself.
So I've taken the plunge. I'm dating, people! Congratulate me!
I'll tell you some specifics later, but one unexpected benefit from this process is that it is helping me to heal. My mind is not on my problems and my feelings. My mind is firmly occupied with the process of meeting people and the logistics of dating several people at once.
And you know what? That feels a whole lot better than moping around the house.
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36 comments:
ok, i could've given you therapeutic advice for FREE lol divorce usually tells you a lot about what you want and don't want in a relationship...if you're smart enough to take a step back and take a long hard look that is. i don't always agree w the jumping right back into dating thing....there's always that potential for the 'rebound' relationship (trust me, i was my x's rebound marriage). what i say about dating is only YOU know when it feels right to start again...don't rush. but i do agree w the fact you need to take up some hobbies, other interests, anything to meet new people.
all i can say is if you feel good then i'm happy for you...btw a co-chatter and i have two books only 19.95 each plus s&h..div and div w kids...we take mc, visa, and money order (ok, we don't really...but we've thought about the collaboration) lol
getting a life eh? Sounds kooky enough to actually work!! ;)
Glad things are looking up.
four at once. hmmmm. we'll have to compare notes. I have a job for you when you want to come to SacTown, you know! seeker
Bug - I mention you in my blog. Come see. seeker
Ciara: Well, I've had my rebound relationship, so that's out of the way. And actually, I discovered that while it is easy to 'intellectually' acknowledge personality traits of your ex that don't fit with your own, it is quite difficult to actually recognize and avoid them. After all, you've been trained over the course of your marriage to accommodate them, and you get quite skilled at it. And you KNOW that personality. If feels comfortable in a way. It is quite easy to slip right into that glove.
Another good thing about the Four-Person plan is that there may be things you THOUGHT you wanted in a partner, but once you have it, you may see otherwise.
M: Yes, things are looking up! Hope you are doing well! Maybe you should give the internet thing a try?
Seeker: I'll come have a look today!
Get a life! (haha!) Wondering if your therapist knows how literally you took their words!
I think this sounds FANTASTIC! All of it! Especially dating...four people (or more) at one time. Question: are (you?) dating them all (four or more) LIKE AT THE SAME TIME...(???) (mee-yow!)
well, least your wise enough to know that, bug...and got the rebound out of the way...very good. lol most ppl don't know chit from shinola especially when it comes to relationships...but i totally get what you're saying.
btw...i never could date 4 or more peeps at a time, not even 2. damned monogamous nature makes ciara a dull girl (but then again, i'm remarried, so that makes ciara a dull girl, too) lol
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Danna:
Yeah, its been fun so far! And no, I am not the Fonz. I have to modesty not to try to take all four out to the same place at the same time!
Ciara:
Well, that's good reflection on you, isn't it? I was feeling guilty about one woman I am dating and had the talk with her to make sure she understood that I was dating others and that I wasn't going to commit.
She laughed. Turns out that I had nothing to worry about. She's using me for my body. ;-)
MUSTAFA!
I'm honored. I've finally been Mustafa'd.
A visit from my Brutha!!!! Woo hoo!! I'm glad you're not moping around the house, Bug, but "get a life"? Holy crap! You're a busy dude!
Lynn: If I wasn't busy before, I am now! Drop me a line and tell me what up!
Make sure if dating 4 ladies at the same time that you try and date woman with the same first name, maybe all called Shirley, that way you make make any name slip ups LOL
Glad ya aint moping around the house though.....
x
Sounds like you could use a vacation, not a life. A vacation from your life? A boat in the middle of the Atlantic somewhere, mayhaps ?
Marmy: Well, two are called Susan, so in a pinch, I have a 50/50 shot!
:-D
Snay! Long time! A boat in the Atlantic would be fantastic! How many of my dates would I get to take? 1 = cool. 2= risky. 4 = purgatory.
actually, they are all aware that I date. But still, no one wants to see the evidence.
Hooray for dating again! I don't think I could manage dating...too much bull shit invovled!
Hello Bug.
I'm glad to be back, and happy to see that you're enjoying life in the fast lane.
Cheers. :)
Sounds like a great plan to me. I think you have a very wise therapist. I'm sure that doesn't always happen. Enjoy the dating scene, it most definitely beats sitting around the house.
Well done! Nothing like diving in the deep end!
Hey Bug,
I definitely think the dating right away is a good thing. Being around new people who are interested in you can only help lift any broken spirits. I find wine also helps that ;o) Good to see you back!
Jenny!
Well, so far dating has not proved to be that much bullshit, but I probably attract no-nonsense people. And women with multiple-personality disorders.
But I'm bound to like SOMEONE in there, right?
Winters:
Good to see you! Hope the academic life is treating you well! Fast lane is nice for now...Since I can't do anything but drive around anyway!
Wiz:
Welcome! My therapist is down-to-earth and practical if nothing else. She's not overly theoretic and philosophical, which is nice. She should wear a tool belt.
Sitting around the house is like hitting yourself with a hammer: it feels great when you stop!
Chickybabe:
Yes, but I must be careful lest I break my neck on the rocks! :-)
Kat:
Good to see you, too! Yeah, there's something about dating that much that is an ego boost, and mine had taken some definite hits recently.
i'm still here as well...got that pif gift done (though honestly it looks like a kindergarterner made it lol). i want to make my other pif gifts as well as i owe miss u. hers first..i'm sure you understand. maybe, just maybe, i'll send them all at once!
Ciara: No problem! Can't wait to see what it is!
Four women at one time? Flippin' 'eck, Bug. lol I don't think.. no, I *know* that I couldn't cope with 4 fellas at one time... maybe that makes me awful old fashioned and "Sandy Dee" - ish, but one guy at a time, please! lol
I don't know that it sounds like you "need to get a life" ..
I was reading something over at Gumbyland today, which one of our friends there posted.. and she quoted Dr Phil.. or paraphrased him at least. Something like ... "Get busy with living your life" ... which is maybe better advice?
Anyway.. glad to see you're around..
don't forget to do your 'pay it forward' post...ya don't have to have gotten the pif gifts before doing so lol i'm getting very close to finishing them all by the way. :)
Peanut!
Good to see you!
Yeah, the four women thing is kind of tough. I'll post on that soon. Obviously I shouldn't be sleeping with them all. That would just be slutty! ;-)
Also, everyone knows that I am dating other people, I'm not looking for a an LTR and I am not quite divorced. It's amazing how mad people get when you don't tell them those things up front. Go figure.
Doctor Phil may have stated it more politely, but it's the same idea. I had plenty of stuff going on in my life, but not much social life, and that was no fun. So here I go!
Ciara: Will do. I guess I can pay it forward before getting my payment! ;-)
Why should a woman get angry with you for saying you don't want an LTR or are dating other women?
I guess it depends on WHEN that upfront comes: if it comes BEFORE you meet OR engage much online, then she's got a chance to decide if she wants to get any further involved. Personally, I say no if I find out a man isn't 'quite' divorced. Its nothing personal to the man, but I don't want to be his rebound or his 'practice' date. It doesn't do much for my self esteem to be that for anyone. And there is also the issue of all the unresolved stuff with his ex.
Then also, if being upfront comes as you're kissing her goodnight or *gasp* getting into bed with her - or if you feel the need to'remind' her you're not interested in a relationships just as you're getting intimate - the timing on that can be rather insulting and presumptuous. Yes, I can understand her getting mad at that point. God forbid you remind her after you've slept with her! (double gasp).
I'm glad you're getting out and not moping. And I hope the dating works out for you. It wouldn't for me, this I know.
Personally, I couldn't dive into dating several people in a quest for self awareness. I think I'd go out in groups and meet people of the opposite sex platonically (4 at a time if you will) to get to know what bugs me and what I can live with. Dating people to get to improve my social skills or know myself seems a bit unfair to the people I'm dating. Its kind of treating them as 'instrumental,' to my needs and I know I wouldn't like to be treated that way - which brings me back to why I don't date 'separated' men.
And, I've never found dating several people works out well for me. Someone always ends up hurt. Its our conditioned human nature.
Take from that what you will, and leave the rest. Thats just my experience.
Anyway good luck with it. Have a good 'life'!
xx
pinks
Ohh, Pinky-San! Should I feel chastened?
I agree with most of your principles here, but I think you are making some incorrect assumptions.
The upfront comes on the profile, before you even contact each other. If you are honest about what you want and what your situation is, then those who would not like that can self-select out of it. Which is what you would do, I presume.
It's an interesting thing about learning about yourself from others. We are all hanging around platonic friends all day every day, and if that taught us all we needed to know about relationships, we'd all be experts, wouldn't we?
But, while we are all pretty good at knowing what kinds of platonic friends we like, we're mostly fairly clueless about what a potential mate could be like, or absolutely can't be like.
It's not until the relationship aspects come into play that we see certain sides of people and of ourselves. Some things you thought you'd hate, but end up okay with, other things you thought you wanted until you got it.
You can't get this information on a Sierra Club hike. Period.
As far as treating people as intruments: well if paying attention and learning from our experience with other people is treating them badly, then everyone we date should be treated so poorly.
I think you are assuming that no one I date has the potential to become exclusive. In fact, everyone has the potential to become more than just a date. But you must be up front and tell them that is not your goal. And you know what? There are plenty of women out there that feel the same. It's not necessary to fool anyone.
Likewise, if your goal in dating is to find a life mate and you are only interested in that, you had better say so up front, because not doing so is just as unfair. Worse, perhaps, because you are attmpting to sell them an obligation they didn't necessarily want when they walked in the door.
No one wants to feel like a they are being railroaded into something.
As far as sex goes, you definitely shoudn't be sleeping with everyone you date, or even any of them necessarily.
But here's the thing: when you decide that you want to be exclusive, you must say so and follow it. But it is not very realistic to think that every person you date is now your exclusive mate. It's not fair to the other person, and you WILL be hurt like that. You are exclusive when you agree to be exclusive, and not a second before.
Allways a good debater, aren't you Pinky? It's actually very good that you challenged me on this. It should help me keep focused on being fair.
xx
Oh dear. If you feel chastened that wasn't my intention - I AM sure you have good intentions.
My opinion is strongly worded because I have had the misfortune of a relationship with a man who wasn't 'quite' divorced but who wanted to be involved with me. He messed with my emotions and shirked accountability for selfish and insulting treatment because of his emotional state of transition. Blame me for being stupid enough to get involved, but I also wish he had taken responsibility for his own emotional rubbish bin before entering the dating world.
As for the instrumental bit I take from your own words:
"Even though you are meeting and studying all these people, it is an exercise in learning about yourself."
I wouldn't want to be anyone's 'exercise' or 'practice'.
I AM sure that you have good intentions, and I want you to find happiness, Bugsy and moping certainly is not the way forward.
I do wonder, however, about a therapist that advises dating when you're not even divorced, let alone worked through the emotions of that life change.
Take from my perspective what you will and leave the rest, but I see a lot of the therapy agenda and self help books on relationships as a license to engage in the exclusive search 'out there' for what is best for 'me'. And in the end, I fear this search is a bandaid that only delays the real hard work of looking within.
I'm sorry if my own personal experience colours my response, but I wanted to speak up because I care.
Good luck Bugsy P,
xx
pinks
This is what a friend told me:
1. It is important that a man helps you around the house and has a job.
2. It is important that a man makes you laugh.
3. It is important to find a man you can count on and doesn't lie to you.
4. It is important that a man loves you and spoils you.
5. It is important that these four men don't know each other.
i'm gonna interject another 2 cents here even if no one wants it lol it's all well n good to say you don't want long term and such, and you can find someone out there that WANTS that, too. but somewhere, at some point, SOMEONE does become emotionally attached in the relationship. this usually comes after the sex, because women have sex on a more 'emotional' basis vs. a man has it more on a 'physical' basis. this is not to say that there are women who do it based on physical and man on emotional (cuz i'm married to the latter)...it's just very tricky finding the person who DOESN'T want the long term, emotional aspect. always got to be careful....ppl will say, 'oh yeah, i'm totally w you on no long term', but a lot say that because they THINK that will help them get the long term in the end. but i often find it's those who fool themselves who get disappointed.
*stepping off of soapbox now :) lol*
Pinks:
No, I don't feel chastened, I asked if I SHOULD feel chastened.
Well, let me put a few questions to you, or anyone that wants to answer:
When are you divorced? When your spouse says she wants a divorce? When you later agree that it's okay to date? Or when the government says you are divorced?
Who knows best? My therapist that I've known for years and has been discussing my life and marriage in detail for years and has training in this area? Or my friends?
So, when you are divorced, how long should it be before you should be permitted to go to coffee or a restaurant with a member of the opposite sex? Am I only allowed to be with males? How do I know when I have worked through all the emotional stuff? Is any divorce ever 'final'?
I am confused, should we search within, which is all about me, or is that selfish? You seem to say both. And how can anyone make an informed intelligent decision on whether to enter into a long-term relationship without knowing himself and what he wants. Can people learn what they need to know about the opposite sex and their own likes and dislikes without any any actual contact with any of them?
Sorry to hear about your relationship experiences. I know how painful these things can be. I have to say that even though I am fresh out of a relationship and vulnerable, there seems to be a number of people interested in initiating a relationship with me.
I have to say I think its better when I am actively looking rather than just accepting or rejecting those that come to me. That's not a good way to find what you want.
Missy:
Very funny! ;-)
Ciara:
Well, I have to agree that having sex very often leads to unintended consequences. It always changes the dynamic of the relationship in some way.
But let me ask this: Is having sex an implied contract of a long term relationship? Does the very act of sex mean that both sides must immediately stop seeing anyone else and commit to each other? What kind of commitment? Exclusive dating? Moving in? Marriage? Does it apply to women, too, or just men?
I am quite aware of how these things can effect people. I've been on both sides of it. You just have to keep talking and make sure the expectations are well known to both sides. You both have to decide to have sex. You both have to decide whether to be exclusive. You both have to decide about commitments.
Personally, I do not have to date every woman friend, I do not have to have sex with every woman I date, and I do not have to be exclusive with every woman I have sex with. I do not have to be exclusive with every woman who wants to be exclusive with me, nor does every woman have to date me, have sex with me or be exclusive with me just because I want it.
You can't always get what you want.
The best that I can do is to not lead anyone to believe that I want something that I don't.
And it works both ways. It's equally possible that I will want more from a relationship than we originally agreed and then I will be hurt.
You can't always get what you want.
oh my goodness....i can say so much here. but i don't want to clutter up your comment box lol
everyone is different...everyone knows what will or won't work for them. for me, even though i was separated for a yr before divorcing i didn't feel 'free'. i was still bound. but that is due to my very monogamous nature. my x on the other hand, started dating the minute he left lol honestly, i tried going out w a guy on a friends only basis and still felt guilty....but that's just me.
sex to me is NOT an implied contract of ltr, marriage, moving in or anything of the sort for me. like i said...everyone's different. i have had sex w someone and never had a ltr w them. what i do know about myself is that i could NEVER keep seeing other ppl the minute it started getting physical w one. now, i expect the guy to be the same, and if he's not, then we part ways. believe me, i've been on all sides of this thing, too, so i'm not even chastising you. ONLY YOU KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT FOR YOU don't let anyone here tell you differently. my comments are merely my opinion based on my experiences and on what i prefer.
btw i have never lived w anyone w/o being married to them. my choice. i just won't do it. also, your friends know you, but at the same time your therapist is an 'outsider' who can give you a fresh perspective. so i think that they BOTH know you and both are worth listening to. take their comments to heart, but like i said, in the end the choices you make are ultimately up to you.
if i didn't have kids, my divorce would definitely be final. but it will NEVER be over for me. and that whole thing that you might be the one that expects more? well, that's what i was talking bout. it might be you or it might be them. that's why i said SOMEONE gets emotionally involved.
ok, this is the final part of my comment. lol some sound very bitter here, and they should try to let go of that. that causes them to stop taking a risk, which leads to not living, and that's no way to be. our lives are too short to hate or be bitter towards everyone that hurts us. better to learn from it and grown than to let all that stifle us.
Bug, I never said you have to go out only with males. You are putting a lot of words in my mouth.
I said its instrumental to date a woman to find out about yourself and to date 4 women to avoid getting involved seems counter to the whole point of dating.
If as you say, you can't find what you're looking for in platonic dinners and coffees with women, then I guess what you're seeking is some form of intimacy (?) And yet dating 4 to avoid involvement....kind of mixed messages for the women, but it does give you what you say you want - space for an experiment.
I think going out and involving other people in our process is selfish. Self reflection is just that self reflective but it is not 'selfish'. Selfish is when we think of our own needs and use others to meet those needs. With self reflection, you may seem self involved, but its not selfish.
As for who knows you best...I'm with Ciara - friends have a place in advice.
Your therapist has some insight - but our therapists only know what WE choose to tell them. They don't travel life with us really and if we see them once or twice a month, how much do they really know about us...their job is to help us see what we're blind to, not to tell us what to do. And as for training - there are an awful lot of bad doctors out there. Sometimes therapists make mistakes too. We're responsible for our own decisions.
As for friends, I'm with Ciara. They have something to offer if you are open to hearing them.
Ultimately you know best about your own intentions. As for the effect of your actions...well...I would guess that asking a woman who has been the subject of your simultaneous pursuit and intention to change a friendship into something more intimate as well as your simultaneous insistence that it be no strings attached...(perhaps presuming that she even wanted more than a friendship or anything lasting with you)...well she'd be a good person to tell you how this come here go away behaviour that seems to be very much about 'your process' is received, in the end.
But I wonder where we can find a girl like that?
Tania
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